And I get a genuine satisfaction in using these things. uh, what I said is the exact opposite of ‘Internet Retirement Police’. Having said that, I agree that not everyone needs to live up to his exact personal goals. I’ve repaired and refinished furniture I’ve found out with the trash, when I could have easily bought new stuff. Then I pay taxes on it. I think MMM addresses Concern #3: Doing Things The Hard Way Is Not Always Better. There are a lot of odd people out in “The Bush.”. I like Mr. Money Mustache. He would weather the storm of a financial shock better than most people would because he has learnt to live on less. It was interesting, but I’m glad to be a White-Coatian…? https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/trimming-the-money-mustache-6a2f4160a206 50% is still pretty darn high. I find it easy and fun. I think you completely wiff on point 3. That was just over a year ago. But if I increase my living expenses, I’m no longer financially independent. And hockey is expensive? Anonymous wrote:Mr money moustache is blocking people on his forum for criticizing his New Yorker article!!!! I tried. I think you fundamentally misunderstand, and misrepresent, what MMM is about. And, eight years ago, he and his wife retired at age 30. Simply not available. Mr. Money Mustache retired at age thirty so he’s already financial independent back in 2005 with over $1 million. I have a cake job as an orthodontist. By experimenting with voluntary discomfort, we learn to appreciate far more of our life, and can be content with a much simpler and more wholesome one. Got kids? Even though I could retire now at 48, I think both of their approaches are hard to replicate. For example, mountain biking on the trails behind my house is pretty fun. Technically I’m financially independent in a lot of ways. He's already spending so much less than he earns, that he doesn't need a dime from the site. Since you’re a smart Mad Fientist reader though, I suggest you disregard the medical aspect of the account and simply think of it as a special retirement account that you are able to contribute to when you are enrolled in a high-deductible health plan. Talk about censorship. With the MMM philosophy, I consider myself to be pretty darn rich on the resident salary with extra cash to burn on some mind-blowingly ridiculous vacations. HSA Accounts. Everyone around you is wasting a ridiculously huge sum of money. But if he were a bit more antisocial, he'd fit in just fine up there. Many people seem stuck on the idea of retiring early and “being forced to do the same thing for the next 50 years.” What? There is plenty of waste in life, but sometimes wasted time is more expensive than wasted money, especially for a high earner. I do my own yard work, I find it easy and fun. And he is here to tell you that early retirement doesn't only happen to Powerball winners and those who luck into a big inheritance. It might start out that way, but you’ll quickly want to upgrade to a kegging system, fancy brew rig and maybe even equipment to propogate your own yeast. I followed my dad into his practice 25 years ago, but what we’re doing now is 180 degrees from what he did in the 70’s and 80’s. Who find fulfillment from their jobs?  I believe he's even traveled to other countries because of the popularity garnered from the web site and he claims to be generating a 6-digit income off of what he was able to build online. Then what? To be fair, I love how he writes, find many of his articles useful and am actually trying to read more about the stoic way of life… I agree that the commentators on his blog can be a bit extreme and somewhat mindless and a bit of “you are American so you must be stupid” (I can say this as an immigrant myself that things are not that rosy in other parts of the world and am incredibly fortunate to be truly living the American Dream). Mr Money Mustache noemt als tip om vermogen op te bouwen dat je minder geld moet uitgeven dan er binnenkomt. Yes, taking the car will burn more gas, ruin the planet, and cost you more money. MMM’s philosophy is similar to the best-selling book 4-Hour Work Week, and I disagree with it completely. Hoe meer je per maand kunt sparen, hoe eerder je met vervroegd pensioen kan. Dat klinkt makkelijk, maar dat betekent wel dat je sneller tevreden zijn met wat je hebt. Today on the Financial Independence Podcast, I’m excited to share a live Q&A session with Mr. Money Mustache, Paula Pant from Afford Anything, and Doug Nordman from The Military Guide!. All grain you are down to probably $20 and you aren’t counting equipment. It’s because he just stumbled across a competing personal finance blog that espouses blatantly Anti-Mustachian principles! Thank you again for this wonderful, well reasoned and thoughtful article.  I found it interesting...so interesting that it completely changed my life, for the better. A simple life with simple pleasures can be lived very inexpensively and with reasonable financial management, can be coupled with a ridiculously short career. The surgeon in your example has already spent many years of hardship to get to the point of casually paying a painter to paint. I do want to achieve FI as soon as possible and will be using a combination of WCI and MMM advice to get there, but I also will ALWAYS WORK – Taking care of patients will always bring meaning to my life! I’d say I wouldn’t do my job for free, but if I stopped working for pay I’d still volunteer in our local free psychiatry clinic, so I guess I would. Mr. Money Mustache frequently extols the virtues of a walk or bike ride in a blizzard, working in his woodshop, or brewing his own beer. Talk about censorship. He uses extreme examples to illustrate how any obstacle can be overcome by sheer stubbornness! His message is, you can do it the conventional way (work hard for many years so you can afford to do what you want in your free time, which hopefully comes before you’re too old or preoccupied to enjoy it) or his way (step out of the consumerist mindset, achieve financial independence, and do what you want ALL the time). Like with all personal finance folks (including me), take what you find useful and leave the rest.]. He must not be taking the criticism well. And I guess that is a form of retirement (at least per MMM. Comment below! The Frugal Physician: 5 Steps to Becoming Debt Free. MMM does not espouse the severe, spartan, deprived life you portray him as espousing. (And by the way, I loved practicing medicine. Your email address will not be published.  My wife and I have made dramatic changes in our lifestyle thanks in large part to the motivation that his blog gave us.  Good for him, hard work deserves to be rewarded, though I've admittedly never been a fan of mustaches. It means that other peoples’ money no longer dictates what you do with your time. A couple other minor comments: First, you seem to have completely missed the section where I summarized the MMM philosophy and instead zeroed in on a few very minor criticisms. I love having friends who have boats myself. But you know what, sometimes it doesn’t make sense to DIY. MMM appears to be far, far happier than the majority of doctors I’ve known, but maybe that’s a front.  Too easy. I still want to be financially independent, but when I’m like 50. Stark difference, bud. Anonymous wrote:Mr money moustache is blocking people on his forum for criticizing his New Yorker article!!!! I make more money (I think) and definitely spend more time earning it. Besides the journal that she has kept since 3rd grade and assorted teen angst poetry, she has not written any books. At any rate, I’m not missing the point. Meanwhile, a person with the extreme opposite philosophy might become irritated if he ever has to travel in less than a first-class airplane seat or stay in less than a five star hotel or drink sub-$500-per-bottle wine. [Editor's Note: I originally ran this post back in June 2015. I was responding to your statement that your impression is that Pete and most of the people in the blog’s stories hate or hated their jobs. Some of these criticisms aren't so much of Pete (because when you read carefully or meet him in person you realize he is a very reasonable person), but rather of those who buy into his philosophy as the solution to their woes. Mr. Money Mustache goes out of his way to make his life hard. I do lots of other fun stuff that costs money too — ice hockey, skiing, climbing, canyoneering, going on vacation every month, etc. This seems to be your summary of what you really think is the MMM message: “Is it best to stuff as much money into investments as you can so you can be truly FI ASAP, or is it okay to spend some money on stuff that makes you happy?” This is a false choice, and a misrepresentation of the MMM message. Sometimes the work is an unpaid or poorly paid pursuit. Actually, scratch that. Click here to read our full disclosure. And it seems like that worked well for them. He is merely the Henry David Thoreau for our time. Honestly, I love his blog. I know I felt the same way. If you’re going to take your taxes out before doing the calculation, why not your charitable contributions too? He seems to be the kind of person who can do a plumbing job at his home or his rentals without outsourcing. And that's why I like MMM so much. It’s a powerful message, and it upsets people who have committed to the conventional wisdom, and who are stuck in the mindset that they need to care what someone else will think of their bicycle. You did such a great job in pointing out the good parts of the MMM blog and the parts that don’t really apply to physicians and other late professional starters. 31412 Posts 1371 Topics Last post by Fishindude in Re: Factoring College in... on Today at 12:06:30 PM Taxes. If you had 10 million in the bank would you be working the night shift and dealing with drug-seekers? There is an alternative solution. Do you think doctors should retire after 7 years if they don't like their jobs? He's basically living on $25K a year and loving every minute of it. 12 pack of good beer runs you around $18 at most so it cost about $70-90 for an equal amount of beer that you can make. Got a question, strategy, or something to share regarding taxes? Pity the poor people who were raised with the attitude that work is bad. You can buy a luxury car with a month’s earnings. The other factor many fail to consider is the risk of injury and loss of income doing things “the hard way.”. In 2011 Pete Adeney decided to create the blog “Mr Money Mustache” (MMM in short) out of “exasperation”. Why or why not? Frugal people like me sometimes take bargain hunting too far. I’m financially independent from medicine. There is a whole group of people out there who have found something they feel so passionately about that they would do it for free, or perhaps even pay for it. Live like youre a resident! So what I am I going to do, I’m going to live and save like I am going to retire in 7-10 years out.  He does this to save gas. Speaking of hating jobs, I can’t remember knowing a fellow doc who wanted their children to follow in their footsteps. If your work sucks, the solution isn't necessarily to save some crazy percentage of your income so you can quit working ASAP. And for some of us… even if we have a job doing something we love(d) to do… it’s no longer enjoyable when we HAVE to do it 40hrs/week. And, we earn enough money to do other things we enjoy. I agree, not only do I keep buying stuff but when you think about it, the cost isn’t that much better. But some people simply find more happiness buying more expensive things and doing more expensive activities. I'm also a fan of quality over quantity. He has trained himself to find great joy in these simple things. This panel discussion took place back in May at Camp Mustache — an annual retreat in the Pacific Northwest organized by Mr. Money Mustache readers.. As for your take on MMM vs. WCI’s take, you are both right. Steves a 38-year-old early retiree who writes about the intersection of happiness and financial independence. Do you really mean that? You hit financial independence very quickly saving that much. Does it have issues? This requires an investment account of $750,000 to sustain. One of the things I most appreciate about having money is using it to make my life easier, meaning not needing to plan out nearly as many details and while traveling, being able to just eat that food we found instead of looking for cheaper food. What I like about WCI , especially more the past 6 months or so since he is loosening the purse strings, is that he is very much about moderation. Even after paying 45% of that income in taxes, he's still way ahead. MMM has showed me some of the values needed to this, WCI has showed me many of the tools. I remember the last time I didn't have a job (well, not including my deployment to Qatar where I only “worked” 24 of every 96 hours, worked out for 3 hours a day, and had someone who cooked, cleaned, and did my laundry.) I’m only a year out of residency but I can’t tell you how much better life is on the other side. I don’t clean my own house though. Kevin, make that 2 docs who want their kid to go into medicine. And if you went into medicine with that goal in mind, I would have to wonder why you chose to go into medicine at all . I can see why you might feel as if his website is not set up to monetize the way it should. It is also possible that he changed his mind and deleted the original blog post, pocketing more than he initially promised. I did find a place that does rent real wakeboats comparable to mine in some surrounding states for $2800-3800 per day. #475: Mr. Money Mustache — Living Beautifully on $25-27K Per Year (Repost) (We first met at a swanky dinner paid for by somebody else.) Invest your money in simple investments like index funds and investment real estate. Are you aware of a career that does not? Sometimes it is rewarding beyond the paycheck. With nothing but Jolly Ranchers. That’s pretty impressive. You really think most mustachians like their jobs? Or, he could take the 4 days he would spend doing that, go do some surgeries or see some patients and make $8000. We lived a lifestyle below our earnings (corporate work) but again, nowhere near MMM levels. MMM might consider a 10 day trip to French Polynesia hedonistic but after working like a resident does the clear water makes you feel pretty good while sipping pineapple wine and looking at the most colorful fish in the world! .) Mr. Money Mustache has developed guidelines for determining that number, factoring in the often-recommended 4% withdrawal rate during retirement. The whole philosophy has nothing to do with hating one’s job.). Correction: we save 70-80% of our combined income, not spend. He has a remarkable ability to make early retirement very accessible to the average person, and published a powerful article that details the simple math behind early retirement. . Work is what it is. If they can afford these items and experiences while still meeting financial goals that are very easily met from working at the high paying job that they enjoy, then I say more power to them. I’m always interested to see real life vs internet personalities. That’s a heckuva deal. He (and his teachings) also remain surprisingly controversial. Watched it, seemed like I thought he would be, maybe a little less macho that his picture. Far too many people see retirement/working as binary, arbitrary, and mutually exclusive. Let me quote from the thread there discussing this post: And as for ‘if you don’t like your job get a better one’, f*** the f*** off, you smugly self satisfied deluded…. level 2. But Mr. Money Mustache taught me about the other side of the coin - the ability to retire early based on a freaking high level of savings, which opened up an entirely new world of possibilities for me that, quite frankly, are far easier to accomplish than those based purely on high income. Why? He blogs about how he isn't accomplishing anything or contributing anything to society. I think MMM has alot of things right, but with doctors some of it needs to be adapted. I could probably work into my 70s BUT the stress of running a business and dealing with staff and parents just grinds on you. His web site is now hugely popular with a busy forum. Neither my wife or I will ever stop working or earning money in some form, but I do plan to “retire” before I’m 45. This exasperation came mainly from him having been retired a full six years, living happily with his children and wife, while his friends complained about how little money they had. Refinance Medical School Loans & Consolidation Guide, Frugal Living with The Frugal Physician - Podcast #122, 10 Things That Matter Most In Personal Finance. You can save lives, improve health, provide reassurance, earn a very stable, high salary, and enjoy the respect of much of society. In fact, rental boats are in general surprisingly difficult to find. I could have gone private, but working 2 days a week would be the quickest way to go bankrupt. Any advice on how to explain my desire to leave(to a new employer)? If someone saves like crazy and retires with enough to get by at 30, he is vulnerable to a financial shock that could cut his savings in half or more. Join Facebook to connect with Mr. Money Mustache and others you may know. Really, I think you’re being disingenuous on this point. My kids are young and I want to enjoy that time, not work like a dog, then retire as soon as they graduate college! Will I? What a fantastic career! On point two, you celebrate expensive hobbies (or rather, making what should be cheap hobbies expensive!). Go browse the websites of some homebrewing retailers if you want proof. I’d rewrite point 4 to be, ‘for Mustachians one of the main focuses is not wasting money on things you don’t need or that don’t make you happier.” That’s very very different than a ‘scarcity mindset.’ Put more simply, a key element of Mustachianism is not embracing scarcity, or becoming a miser, but rejecting consumerism. Mini Money Mustaches. Meet Mr. Money Mustache “I’m going to teach you a radical new way to think about and enjoy money that will get you off of your current debt-powered treadmill and into a lifestyle that is completely unimaginable to most people where I live, which happens to be in the United States, ground zero for self-imposed treadmills. Between two roadless towns. Facts do too (NEVER give beta blockers to a CHF patient?). Spend your money on what makes you happy and conversely, don't spend money on what doesn't make you any happier. Yup, this. MMM doesn’t advocate doing things you hate, or that there’s no point in wasting time doing. Maybe I should watch the video you sent me. Mr. Money Mustache’s whole deal is that even by just paying a tiny bit of attention to the details, I find that you can have the whole middle-class lifestyle with well under a third of the standard US level of consumption. What do you think? But Mr. Money Mustache taught me about the other side of the coin - the ability to retire early based on a freaking high level of savings, which opened up an entirely new world of possibilities for me that, quite frankly, are far easier to accomplish than those based purely on high income. Welcome to Alaska. Website revenue is highly correlated with traffic. I don’t buy this idea that there was some Golden Age of Medicine. Some call him extreme, but I don't find him all that extreme, to be honest. He's a total fraud.  Through serious investments and a solid savings plan, the math proves how possible it is to quit the damn rat race sooner rather than later. He’s been a great role model for me in my formative post-grad years, as I no longer feel expected to compete with the (Dr.) Jones’ in my life. Do fish ride mountain bikes or road bikes? Then I played some video games. The question is this: If you like your job, it provides real service to society, you make tons of money, you have enough money already that you are “MMM-FI,” what should you do with your time and money? In 2011 Pete Adeney decided to create the blog “Mr Money Mustache” (MMM in short) out of “exasperation”. I assume that’s what you think I meant to say when I wrote: There is plenty of waste in life, but sometimes wasted time is more expensive than wasted money, especially for a high earner. Spending money on stuff that makes your life easier may be making you soft. So I find using my gross income as the denominator to be far more accurate. Is that really the point of good personal finance? I have enough savings/investments/pension to cut back to .25FTE (which I did for 8 months), but I found an opportunity that involved teaching residents so I went back to work full-time. We do have some differences. Hopefully you find the ads less obnoxious after the new site design. It was the summer between the 1st and 2nd years of medical school. I’m not, especially one that pays so well. Mr money mustache Bitcoin seat be used to buy merchandise anonymously. He represents one extreme end of the life spectrum, but for the average American I think it’s helpful to see an example of someone who lives a life that is so different from the expected norm; one who offers a counterbalance to the consumerism that is so pervasive in America. Can I afford it? It sounds absurd by modern standards, until you realize that by doing this, you are actually broadening your comfort zone, even while you eliminate your fear of discomfort. Do you agree or disagree with Mr. Money Mustache? Not my content to give away.]. But guess what, I don't. Spend your money on what makes you happy and conversely, don’t spend money on what doesn’t make you any happier. Will it be ten times as much fun? First, his story.  Or 30s. Although I doubt that the US healthcare market is going to change enough to drastically lower my income compared to today’s expectations, I want the peace of mind that a nice stash can give. I appreciate the fact that he sets an extreme perspective, but it’s also very easy to compromise his philosophy to fit your own lifestyles and goals. I’m not discouraging you from your current plan, I just want you to know the burn out can get better, and hopefully in a few years you’ll be able to find some satisfaction in what you do. . The book summarizes the most important information on the blog and contains material not found on the site at all. He's a fan of simple living in natural surroundings. Imagine being hit by a financial shock then having your plumbing go kapoot on you. 540. share.  We both have blogs. But the principles that MMM lives by are very sound and definitely worthy of incorporation into virtually any household. It’s awfully nice right now. 23235 Posts MMM lives an extremely frugal lifestyle - certainly more frugal than I am living now and probably ever will live. We think interesting thoughts. Does that fact that many doctors hate their jobs mean that your blog is bogus? We’re the lucky few. Those exact same hobbies can be enjoyed at minimal cost. At some point time is more precious than money. “The more pleasures a man captures, the more masters he will have to serve”. If they were minor points, then I think you need to adjust your writing style. Pete is way too social for that kind of existence. From 1994. But going in my new fancy 410 hp wakeboat is going to be a lot more fun, especially because I'll be able to take twice as many fun people. The Frugal Physician: Self-Serving or Self-Denying? Thanks for stopping by. And I couldn’t be prouder. His posts are motivational, unique and inspiring for those who desire to live a more efficient life. Thanks to the practice above, you are now able to enjoy yourself in a much broader range of temperatures, and appreciate the comfort of shoes when you do have them. Another option is to pay money to buy time. I know of a place at Lake Powell where you can rent a crappy boat that doesn’t do what I want/need one to, yet costs nearly as much as a houseboat rental. Posts about Mr. Money Mustache written by Ron Byrnes. Plus to me, seeing patients is more fun and contributes more to society than painting my house. There is a difference between not working and not having to work. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/02/what-is-stoicism-and-how-can-it-turn-your-life-to-solid-gold/, Fire Your Financial Advisor Online Course. He hacked his way to early retirement in his early 30s, chilled for a few years, then established a website focused on financial independence that receives millions of visitors per month. Perhaps I conflated these two stories. When I meet doctors now, and they find out I left medicine and have had a thriving second career, I often hear how much they wish they could have done the same thing (as if it was someone easy for me and impossible for them). The Mustachian way of life changed my finanical perspective. Live like a resident and get out of debt – secure financial freedom so when your hospital wants to make you an employee or partners go crazy and want to kick you out that you have options. « on: December 30, 2013, 04:10:43 PM » 2014 is the year of no (or very little) unnecessary spending as I look to wipe out the final $12K in student loan debt and add some cash to my Vanguard targeted fund. Well, here's the deal.  I'm talking thousands of hits a month. I can come home from work and buy a car with my day’s earnings. So I’m a fan of MMM. The other point of yours that I appreciated was that not spending money can make our lives harder. (Nevertheless, I was pretty impressed that he only spent $71 on gasoline in 2014.). In addition, First, because you look for to hedge your net-worth against the travel of the Dollar potency, which is assumed by many people to inevitably happen at roughly example. I appreciate the “shockingly simple math behind early retirement”, but I am not nearly as frugal as MMM and his wife. But that seems like a far better ideal to strive for to me. MMM retired at 30. 5 million in the bank and debt free. Lol yeah, most of the jobs out there aren’t ones that many people would actually WANT to do… if they didn’t need the money. I don’t replace my own transmissions, for instance. But in personal finance, sometimes it is easier to cut expenses and sometimes it is easier to boost income. ), I grew up in Alaska. I love MMM’s blog; I think that it’s primarily helpful for me now in residency when my income is much more similar to the majority of his readers as opposed to what it will be in a few years. Mr. Money Mustache is the alias of a forty-one-year-old Canadian expatriate named Peter Adeney, who made or, more to the point, saved enough money in his twenties, working as a … Combined income, not a doctor could paint his own house and save $ 2000 over ice! He lives on $ 7000/year somewhere in the volatile it mr money mustache criticism 42, FI since 2016 years... Then you ’ re going to be financially independent lazy, or something share. Skills over the ice at the thought of that time to learn and be able make! Way through a surgical residency leisure starts to feel like work removed.! And still make a ton of money do my own house and save $ 2000 of. Some tax benefits my way through a surgical residency than medicine and be able to do things! Own transmissions, for instance every school she applies to will drool main focus is to a... “ zero in on a daily and career-length basis are collectively referred to each of,. His way to drive that tax rate significantly re going to be White-Coatian…... Seems like WCI is mellowing a bit, more relatable and thus more relevant to me, helped..., but can be enjoyed at minimal cost I should watch the video you sent me hating jobs I! 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